Liz: Welcome to our first RAINE podcast. My name is Dr. Liz King, one of the founders of the RAINE group. And you're all very welcome in joining us on this podcast. And with me today, I have Holly Chadd, very kindly come along to speak to us about how the RCN can help support nurses, which includes student nurses who require reasonable adjustments for their learning. So, Holly, thank you so much for joining us. And would you like to introduce yourself a little bit more?
Holly: Thank you, Liz. I'm delighted to be here. And it's nursing, nurses’ day today. So that seems so fitting What a lovely way to spend some of my nurse’s day with you.
My name is Holly, and I'm the disability officer at the Royal College of Nursing. And the main thing that I do as disability officer is facilitate a network for all members of the college, whether they're students, nurses, nursing support workers, apprentices, in a network for any of them who have lived experience of disability or neurodivergence.
Liz: Lovely, thank you, Holly. And the reason we have invited you along today is because of your experience and your expertise, with this area of supporting nurses who require reasonable adjustments, and obviously with RAINE, we're very much focusing on the support for learning for both student nurses and nurses. So, if we have people listening to this podcast today who are thinking, how can the RCN support me or support my students? So how can the RCN and people like yourself and your colleagues within the college, how can you support with these reasonable adjustments.
Holly: So, there are certain is a membership body and we're a trade union and professional organisation devoted to nursing. So, we get lots of queries from members who are learning, you know, learning, and they might have a disability or neurodivergence and require some reasonable adjustments. And I think the most common query that we'll have is around disclosure telling someone you know, I'm dyslexic, I'm autistic, whatever it is, needing to have that conversation.
And because it brings up lots of different issues, doesn't it Liz, I think there can be fear, I think within healthcare, certainly, there can be lots of outdated notions around the concept of learning, and giving health care as someone with a disability or someone who's neurodivergent. So, there's that hurdle of not knowing how the disclosure will be received.
And then there's issues around what your rights will be and what you're entitled to, or even putting aside the legislation, what you could ask for what might help you. And depending where you're you are on your journey, as someone who needs adjustments, you might have no idea at all. Or you might be moving into a new area and think that the things that have helped you in the past, simply aren't going to work anymore. You know, you might have got a promotion, or there's lots of changes throughout a noise, we're not static and things change. And obviously, technology changes as well.
So, I think that the RCN we're really looking at supporting you from that first question around disclosure. And we try and tailor our support to you and to your questions. But we'd be looking to furnish you with what you need in terms of knowing what you're entitled to, knowing to how to have healthy conversations about what you need. And from the point of view of someone who's supporting a student, now giving that that support to them as well.
Liz: Because as you say, it's it can be a continuous support as well can’t it from someone maybe who is a student nurse and then into their career as a registered nurse, as you're saying, maybe a change of career path, or change your job or a change of clinical area. So, the RCN can, can give that continuous advice, isn't it? It's not just a one stop shop.
Holly: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where the peer network that we run is really valuable because people often do join at a time when they're experiencing an issue. Not always, but sometimes, but then they stick with the group. So, there are days that we will feel that we can give support, and there are days that we will need support. And this is about speaking to other people who've been where you might have been, you know, if you're a nurse who's dyslexic, or if you're studying, and you've got a new diagnosis of a condition, there'll be someone in the group who can really say, look, it's gonna get easier, or have you thought about doing this, or that's worked for me. And that's one of the benefits of that continuous kind of peer to peer interaction, I think.
Liz: And is that an online forum or an online group?
Holly: Yes, so we have a closed Facebook group, and then we operate a service, because it's a small group in terms of RCN membership numbers, but it's a big enough group, it can be helpful to be kind of put in touch with hopefully the right people for you. So, we would send out email and telephone contact details for other members who we think you'd be well matched with. And that take that initiative to contact the people that you think can help you.
Liz: Brilliant, because that's again, relating to reasonable adjustments for kind of all conditions, if that's the right terminology, isn't it physical, mental health neurodivergent? Or a combination of any of those? It's not purely...
Holly: Is? Yeah, it would be a combination. Yeah.
Liz: So, it's not just purely peer support for dyslexia, for example?
Holly: No, so we would be trying as much as we can to make that tailored response. So, you know, looking at, are you going? Are you currently in a degree based course? Or are you doing short course of learning? Or have you been promoted? Are you working in the NHS, so you will be doing ward work or you perhaps even, you know, an educator, nurse educator. And then matching based on those things as well, you might be issued. And but it might benefit to talk to you as someone who's has a similar condition to you but is working at a band six or a band seven, just to see the potential there as well.
Liz: So, some role modelling as well, when sharing of good practice?
Holly: Yeah. And then what we do on the back of that is to really try and harness that lived experience of our members. And either spot those trends of the things that people are coming back, you know, multiple members are coming to us with that is obviously quite a common challenge, or a common success, and work out how we can promote that more broadly. So, make sure that there's guidance around that issue or make sure that if it's something we can influence that we're feeding that in.
Liz: That's obviously UK wide, isn't it for nurses in England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales? Is that correct?
Holly: Yep. Northern Ireland,
Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Yeah.
Liz: And for England, just to double check. That includes our nurse students who are apprentices as well.
Holly: Yeah. Absolutely.
Liz: I think sometimes there is some confusion, isn't it about what the apprentice nurses or nursing associates are eligible for in terms of support, but it's everything that a fee paying student is available to?
Holly: Well, I mean, in terms of RCN membership, the peer support network is available to any member and all of our member support services operate on that basis, really. But yeah, I think there are other complications and confusions aren't there because, you know, apprentices are employed, whereas students aren't technically employed, even though they're working, in placement environments with employed people. So again, that might be something that people need help unpicking. And we're here to help with that as well.
Liz: Wonderful. So, it's the lived experience. It's advice. It's advice on financial support as well.
Holly: Yeah, we have a welfare service that is part of membership support services. And we do help a lot of student members or members who due to a course of study might have a change in their financial situation. So, looking at disability benefits, and other state benefits, budgeting tools, housing issues, that sort of thing.
And we have a counselling service as well. If you're here studying from overseas, and you're on some sort of visa, and our immigration team can potentially help you and we have our Career Service, which is really popular as well. So that might be about looking for your first job, honing your CV, looking to move into different areas that might suit you better or help you progress.
And I think for all of our services, it's good to start online, and especially something like the Career Service or the peer support service, there's a lot that you can get from just visiting online, lots of resources that are available to you.
And then going forward from that, if you need further support, we'd be looking to speak to potentially over the phone, you might be put in touch with a welfare advisor or myself as the peer support. Coaching or careers coaching is available as well. So, it's kind of like a tiered approach depending on what you need.
Liz: Wonderful. So, if anyone listening today is not currently an RCN member, they would need to join the RCN to access the services. Is that correct?
Holly: Yeah. And I think if you're considering joining, then you can get a real really good flavour of what we do by going online, it's not all behind the member login. And then it's really easy from there to see how you would go forward and join up, you can do that online. If you are in a degree course of study, then there is a membership fees for different types of member, including students. So again, that all that information is online for you.
Liz: Wonderful, thank you. And if any of our listeners unfortunately have any issues with facilitating their reasonable adjustments for learning? How can the RCN or the peer support service help with that with negotiating with the employer for instance?
Holly: Yeah, so I mean, we're really about giving people, equipping people to have these hopefully, really positive and open honest conversations about what they need and what they're entitled to. Setting out, you know, how those will be put in place, having the recourse then to go back and chase things up, know who owns which parts of those processes, and how things are being funded.
But of course, there are times when unfortunately, it just things don't progress. Or you might get a feeling that actually you're being treated differently, because you need these adjustments because you have a disability. And at that point, we'd be urging you to actually get some professional employment advice. And for placement issues, or employment, that will involve coming back to us going through RCN Direct our brilliant advice centre there, and they will be able to give you some upfront advice and refer you if appropriate.
Liz: And that obviously includes sort of legal assistance if required, I would have thought.
Holly: Yeah, yeah. So, we'd be looking at relevant legislation, and we'd be discussing things like discrimination, what that can look like and what that might mean. And again, I think it can be really hard, especially when you are in by that stage, probably quite an emotional and difficult position, where you're just trying to advocate for yourself and get what you need to, you know, be a great healthcare professional and give great patient care. But actually, you're coming up against all of these hurdles. So, it's a chance to have an objective sounding board who can give you reliable advice and signposting as well.
Liz: Well, Holly, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And that's been thoroughly useful. Thank you. Because I think anyone that can help our, our listeners with supporting nurses with their reasonable adjustments is fantastic. And certainly, peer support is always something that's welcomed, isn't it?
Holly: Thanks, Liz, it's been my pleasure. Thank you.
Liz: Thank you so much for listening to this RAINE podcast. Please remember to check out our resources on our webpage, which is www.raine.org.uk. And follow us on Twitter @RAINE_Int There, there's lots of other resources and podcasts, videos, etc. To expand our knowledge and share within our community of practice. So, for now, take care. And please join us for future episodes of the RAINE podcast.